Jeffrey Kipnis proposes that Graham Harman expand on the themes of his most recent book Immaterialism, to supplement the previous night’s public debate between Harman and Slavoj Žižek. Kipnis maintains that Harman’s conceptualization of objects disrupts deeply entrenched assumptions, and also provides a novel social theory. Harman responds by discussing his views on objects. Next Kipnis asks Harman to discuss his approach to reality. Harman stresses the importance of activities such as art, the use of metaphors, and telling jokes. He clarifies his positions by contrasting them with those of Žižek, Heidegger, Husserl, and others. When Kipnis brings up the question of aesthetics, . Harman responds with a discussion of J. G. Ballard and fiction. Kipnis challenges Harman to engage the significance of fashion. They discuss Lynn Margulis’s theory of endosymbiosis, Jan Pieterszoon Coen and the Dutch East India Company, Bruno Latour’s actor-network theory, and varieties of formalism.